Thread
J
JAG
Is drinking in moderation forbidden by Lord God?
You should be of sober mind. You are held to account and should be ready to advance the kingdom of God.
I don't think so.
Especially if you mean by "moderation" not getting drunk. Being drunk is forbidden (Ephesians 5:18).
I mean, it's very possible to drink alcohol and not get drunk.
And what about Jesus? Remember. Didn't He turn water into wine? John 2:10
Now, smoking marijuana.......well, that's another kettle of fish altogether.
Hello JAG,
Without knowing your definition of moderation, this question is difficult to answer because moderation has different meanings depending on who you ask. Also, if you are asking for yourself if it is okay to drink in moderation, my question would be what is the Lord putting on your heart? No matter what we choose to do, we should ask ourselves “is the Lord leading me to do this?”
Personally, I do not drink alcohol. I used to drink many years ago which caused me to make some bad decisions. The Lord has put it on my heart to not drink alcohol anymore so I don’t drink. But that is something between me and the Lord.
Everyone has their own walk and I am not going to tell you or anyone else that it is right or wrong to drink. That is completely between the individual and the Lord. The best answer I can give is what is the Lord putting on your heart when it comes to drinking?
I agree with Jim1618 where he says that it is possible to drink alcohol and not get drunk and that getting drunk is forbidden. However, I am not sure I understand what he means by asking what about Jesus turning the water into wine?
Perhaps if he reads this, he might be able explain how using the example of Jesus turning the water into wine answers the question on whether or not it is okay to drink in moderation.
Reading through the account of this marriage feast in John Chapter 2, and seeing that they ran out of wine (my guess is that these men were already drunk before Jesus did what He did), so my question is why would He give them another 180 gallons of wine to drink if it is forbidden to be drunk?
Anyways, this is something a person should be asking the Lord about before they consume alcohol. Is this something that is pleasing in His sight?
Hope this helps. Blessings to you in Christ!
Jag, Jesus and his apostles had wine with dinner at times, and during celebrations. Jesus made wine from water for people to drink at a wedding celebration. Drinking too much and getting drunk is a problem, just like overeating is a problem, because it is not good for our bodies, and we must remember our bodies are a temple of God and the Holy Spirit dwells in a Christian’s body.
1 Corinthians 6:19
“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?”
GB
Jordan, what do you think this verse means?
Mark 2:22
And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
Mark 2:22 has nothing to do with drinking alcohol; that is a different matter altogether.
Mark 2:22 is speaking about the Nature of Salvation in parabolic language, as God does in much of the Bible ("But without a parable spake He not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples." Mark 4:34).
Mark 2:22 is teaching that when Christ, eternal God Himself, "saves" someone by applying the Word of God, the Gospel of Salvation by Grace Alone ("new wine") to the heart of that individual, He does not merely apply that Word to our sin-cursed soul ("old bottle") that is in rebellion against God. He actually performs a great miracle by giving that individual a New Resurrected Soul ("new bottle") that in itself "...doth not commit sin...", 1 John 3:9; as He seeks out and "saves" those whom He has "...chosen in Him (Christ) before the foundation of the world..." Ephesians 1:4
And that person whom God has "saved" will from that moment on have an increasing earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to God as He reveals Truth to them from His Holy Word, the Bible Alone and in its Entirety.
All of this is 100% the work of God Alone. A Gospel of Grace+works, i.e. Our good works, our faith, our repentance, our obedience to the Law of God ("old wine") can neither initiate nor contribute to our salvation in any way whatsoever. These elements are the RESULT of God's drawing and having applied His salvation to our life. They are never the REASON nor the MEANS for salvation.
We see this beautifully played out with the thief on the cross who Christ "saves" before our eyes, who initially reviled the Lord Jesus just like the other. But whom Christ "saved" causing him to seek His mercy. And then Christ's promise..."Today thou shalt be with me in paradise".
Praise God for so great Salvation!
BG,
Thank you for your further thoughts on Mark 2:22.
I do agree with much that you stated. I also believe that a Christian once saved, will repent from sin, and follow Jesus, including turning away from a worldly lustful life while helping others, including performing good works as motivated by the Holy Spirit and all for the glory of God found throughout the bible and in particular I find this subject is discussed in detail in both books James, and 1John. Great reading regarding works and sin…
GB
What does your understanding say these verses mean-
Hosea 4:11
Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.
Proverbs 23:29
Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
And could you confirm what you believe you are saved from?
And also , does Jesus save by his own power, or by the power of his God his Father?
Hi BG,
Here are some of my thoughts on Mark 2:22. This is a great verse.
In reading the verse, it tells me, that Jesus knew that the Gospel of the Kingdom “would not” be accepted by the current Jewish religious leaders and their followers at that time, because they did not follow, nor take to heart, God’s original commands/words. Instead, they twisted and corrupted God’s command’s/words and made them into their own complex, strict, and rigid religious rules and customs, which turned God’s original good wine into the old corrupted wine coming from the old wine bottles that Jesus was referring to.
Jesus came with a new approach, to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom to sinners, knowing that there would be some that would accept the “new again” original uncorrupted wine (Good News) into their hearts and minds “new bottles” where the new wine could then continue to age being in the right environment, and would develop with age into a very fine wine, to be shared with others….as God originally designed.
Any further thoughts on Mark 2:22 would be appreciated.
GB
Thanks for your reply Jordan,
I would be happy to add more thoughts to that verse, but first would like to be certain what you say you are saved from?
Although these verses in simple form , would be Good wine is Our Fathers ( the greater Almighty God)wisdom and righteousness, his word,
And the “ corrupt wine , is anything contrary?….? As the disobedience of the first transgressor, the woman Eve….hence corrupt bottles burst ( mankind), spilling on the ground, which certainly followed after the woman’s transgression?
Hi BG,
You ask, what am I saved from? I will give you a simple answer. The lake of fire!
Revelation 20:15
“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
GB
Thanks Jordan, though there be a multitude ideas what the lake of fire / hell be,
Let every man seek/ decide for himself…..preferably by not trusting men but through scripture “ letters” ,
Leading to the “ sincere milk of Gods words” written on his servant Jesus heart……
Isaiah 42:1
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Re “ good wine “ and “corrupt wine, “ the good wine comes from the” vine “of God, his words , his wisdom,
His righteousness, the corrupt wine from the “ vine of Sodom” ( sin) anything contrary to Gods “ good wine”. Which “ Cheereth God and man”
Judges 9:13
And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?
1 Chronicles 29:17
I know also, my God, that thou triest the heart, and hast pleasure in uprightness. As for me, in the uprightness of mine heart I have willingly offered all these things: and now have I seen with joy thy people, which are present here, to offer willingly unto thee.
Of course Jesus who was Given the Fathers spirit , not by measure , therefore loves righteousness too.
Psalms 45:7
Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
And all men should consider carefully that when Gods “works” are complete, only two are mentioned …..
Revelation 21:22
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
And then consider carefully how many times God says “ All” not some, can God lie?
Also considering God converted the chief of sinners Paul, instantly, but also remembering he suffered more than the other apostles…….
Mark 10:26
And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
Luke 6:4
How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone? And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
1 Timothy 2:6
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Mark 10:45
For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
No contradiction or error above, if so be have understanding,
Which only God gives… not men…..
Letter killeth, Spirit gives life……..
Hosea 13:14
I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Romans 14:11
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
“ not for ours only”
Think God is a God of the dead?
2 Esdras 11.46
That all the earth may be refreshed, and may return, being delivered from thy violence, and that she may hope for the judgment and mercy of him that made her.
Ephesians 1:9
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach.
Romans 11:30
For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Psalms 145:9
The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
Mercies are over “ All” his works
Numbers 14:21
But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.
“ All the earth filled with Gods glory”
Isaiah 1:27
Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
“ redeemed “ by judgement….
Isaiah 33:5
The LORD is exalted; for he dwelleth on high: he hath filled Zion with judgment and righteousness.
“Filled her” by judgement and righteousness ..
Luke 2:10
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Great joy , to “ all people”. How could joy be in eternal suffering,
Believe God! But fear his “ terrible Judgement “ if not obeying
Genesis 22:18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
“ All nations blessed “. How could eternal death or torment be blessing?
Believe God! So much more to learn ( from him) and hope to grow in grace,
2 Peter 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Dear JAG
I see that you have received many replies.
I will answer your question simply. Drinking in moderations is permitted. There are places in the Bible that encourage consumption of alcohol. In one place drinking a bit of alcohols is recommended for someone who has stomach issues (I believe it was Paul instructing Timothy).
Drinking to become drunk, habitual drunkenness, and dependence on consuming alcohol to maintain a happy state of mind is considered sinful.
Be not drunk with wine, but be filled with the Holy Spirit is recommended by Paul. You can search online for passages in the Bible that speak about consuming alcohol.
I do not drink alcohol excepting times such as a toast to the wedded couple at a reception or such times of celebration. I do not like the taste of alcohol much so it is easy for me to not drink it even in moderation. It is a rare occurrence for me.
I do not disapprove of others who choose to drink alcohol. It is their choice at their own discretion and I respect that. I do not hang around situations where people are prone to drunkenness.
But just because I choose to approach alcohol consumption this way does not mean another Christian should not drink in moderation, which Scripture does not condemn.
JAG: I hope you have been helped with your question in the many replies. I do recommend praying to God about this and if is tis wise for you to drink in moderation. His answer is what is right and you should obey Him and not men.
If you drink wine it should be Kosher wine and used for the stomach. I also say wedding celebrations because Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding.
Hello Babs,
As far as wine goes, I understand the part about using for the stomach, as we see in 1 Timothy 5:23, but if I may ask, how would one know whether or not a wine is kosher, and doesn’t kosher wine require a Jewish person (one who is under Jewish law) to ensure all the wine ingredients are kosher?
Also, if wine is being served at a wedding celebration, where would one go to find kosher wine?
I know alcohol drinking (including wine) is one of those topics that believers often debate. In 1 Timothy 3:1-7, we are given instruction concerning overseers which would be bishops, elders, or pastors. What’s interesting is that in Verse 3, we see that if a person is being called into the ministry as a pastor or overseer, it says that person should not be given to wine.
So, if a believer who feels it is okay to drink wine in moderation is called into the ministry, should he completely stop drinking wine altogether because “Not given to wine” sounds like some sort of loophole?
However, if we take it literally from the Greek text, it means to not be alongside of wine. It means don’t be associated with it. Don’t even let it sit on the table next to you, even if it belongs to someone else, stay away from it. Don’t be associated with it at all.
Something I have learned and would like to share is that wine today has so much more alcohol content than it did in OT times and even in the early church. Sometimes I wonder what would happen if wine today all of a sudden had to be made with the same alcohol content as it had in biblical times, would folks still drink it? Just a thought!
Thank you so much for your post and for your time if you have read mine.
Many blessings to you in Christ!
“It’s not what goes into a man’s mouth that defiles him but what comes out of his mouth from his heart “ Jesus .
A man who imbibes kosher wine to his hurt is as foolish as a man who drinks any wine to his hurt .
There is no scripture forbidding the drinking of alcohol . But it teaches and gives any number of examples of taking too much !
From Noah to Herod .
Is it not written “ Be not drunk with wine wherein is excess but be ye filled with the Holy Spirit “
Of Him there is no limit and in whatever measure it is a blessing to ourselves to the church add others that make the no sorry